Mac Freeze on launching VM

[Louis McFadin]

Phone number for real help.

Does anyone know of a phone number to call Parallels that doesn't require you to give them $30 ?

Maybe if we could actually talk to a human we could get some results.

 

[kuebler]

Hello!

We managed to reproduce this crash in our testing lab and fixed the cause of it. We are going to issue a special build with this fix soon.

Any idea on when you plan to do so?

 

[al3]

Any idea on when you plan to do so?

I've really lost confidence in this company. It has been over a week since this issue surfaced and there is still no fix the problem of 4560 on a 10.4.10 Intel Mac (Mini).

I did receive a PM from "Mike" who offered me a 'beta test' fix but I declined as we have a strict, zero-tolerance policy in this office of only using production software. I was not about to lose my job in order to help Parallels test their software. They told me NOT to share it (the build) with anyone else, which is understandable.

I borrowed a friend's Win-PC so that I could 'stay in business' for the few applications that I need (in the financial services industry many carriers and brokerages give out CDs with rating software so you can see how important having both Mac and XP abilities is to someone in the this industry.)

Now I know first-hand why the old saying "No one ever lost their job buying IBM" is still used. It is obvious to me that Parallels does not have either the number of staff or the in-house expertise to fix the problem of 4560 in a timely manner, nor do they (seem to) understand the PR implications of 'stonewalling' and making no comment (something Apple has been famous for over the years too.)

I can't put my future in the hands of these people, no matter how nice they are. I need the support and the infrastructure of a 'real' company.... and am willing to pay what it costs. When I go to the boardroom I want to pass out a press release or BB notice about how the company is working on the problem, what work-arounds might be, etc. I don't want to say to the others "Well, no there is still no word on the issue from them." That makes me look bad.

Parallels does not understand that business people don't buy features or benefits... they buy solutions. When the 'solution' becomes "the problem" we look for other vendors.

It would take a lot of explaining on the part of Parallels to keep us as a customer after VMware comes out of beta. I hate to 'trash' Parallels on their own board, because I have a 'soft spot' in my heart for small companies since we're a small agency. I like to meet clients at the local mom/pop coffee and pastry place instead of Starbucks.

But Parallels has really embarrassed me here... as it was my recommendation to drop PCs and use Macs last year... and until now it has worked out well. Now I'm being 'pounded' by others and I don't like it. Yes, I'm one of the partners, but a small agency is more like a family... and while it's true that when poppa is not happy, no one is happy... but when the 'kids' throw a tantrum, that's not fun either.

This was a chance for Parallels to show us what they are made of.. to step up and put in the hours, work around the clock if needed, to solve the problem.

What have we seen from them so far? There has been nothing official and darn little un-official (on this board). If we treated our customers this way, we'd have gone under a long, long time ago in our competitive industry. I simply don't expect to see Parallels survive when VMware enters their market. I hope they can compete, but if the past week is prologue to their future, I just don't see it.

I'm six months from 60 years old and have been in business for a long time... and this (the lack of response to the issue) looks like the tell-tale sign of a company "on the ropes." I hope I'm wrong. I don't have any ill-will toward Parallels. I just want my problem solved. As Tony Soprano would say... "It's business, not personal."

Al
www.insurancesolutions123.com

 

[kuebler]

I've really lost confidence in this company. It has been over a week since this issue surfaced and there is still no fix the problem of 4560 on a 10.4.10 Intel Mac (Mini).

While I'm not enthused about the reactions of Parallels, I personally would not see things that negative.

I deem runnng an OS in a virtualization environment to be something inherently risky. So IMHO this is reasonably well suited for people using their computers for leisure purposes, especially the Windows part. And then this type of problem is more a question of fun or disdain, and not of flourish or perish...

As Tony Soprano would say... "It's business, not personal."

Al
www.insurancesolutions123.com

My impression is that somebody wanting a Mac but having to use it also for mission critical tasks under Windows, that those persons would better resort to the VMWare guys. They come from classical business environments and probably cater better to business people. The flip side is that they in turn have to be slower (e.g. endless beta stages) and care less for the leisure parts of computing (games support etc.).

So unfortunately it's the old dilemma again: pick your poison!

 

[slantyyz]

While I'm none too pleased with these kernel panics either, some of you need to manage your expectations for something that costs less than $100.

If you have a need to run mission critical software on a specific OS, run it on that OS. Native.

At the very least, Boot Camp it. Virtualization is convenient, but it's also new on the Mac. It's not nearly as mature as it is in Windows or Linux, where you can safely run production servers on VMWare or Xen. I should know, I've been using VMWare since 2000, and I've been though its growing pains - but today, I trust it totally on Windows/Linux. Parallels isn't perfect, but it's not nearly as bad as some of you are making it out to be.

If you're running mission critical software, don't upgrade production software willy nilly. You put it on a representative test box and hammer it for a week before putting it widespread across your network. You also need a rollback strategy (i.e. pre-upgrade disk images). A rollback strategy is like an insurance policy, no pun intended (ahem). If you upgrade like a cowboy, expect to get shot. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" and "if it is broke, make sure the upgrade don't broke it even more".

If running my business (i.e., feeding my family) on software requiring Windows, I'm running it on a real Windows machine - the outage cost is just too high.

 

[kuebler]

I completely agree with your standpoint, as you can see from my previous post. Having said this, however...

While I'm none too pleased with these kernel panics either, some of you need to manage your expectations for something that costs less than $100.

... I think for reason of clarity we should not so much stress the $100 argument, because otherwise some folks may want to argue that a Windows (or a MacOS) doesn't cost much more and is rightfully expected to run reliably.

So IMHO it's the question of what is the purpose, usage environment, and business model of a software. To my feeling, Parallels is for convenience and leisure and does already a good job there. Mission critical can be an - at least slight - overstretch.

 

[slantyyz]

I think $100 is a good argument. I consult for software that costs $50K USD plus per installation, and when there are problems, the cost of the outage is more than significant. And to be honest, the support from the vendor that sells the software I consult for leaves more to be desired, considering the hefty price tag. For a piece of software that costs < $100 (I got mine for the pre-order price, so my expectations are even lower), Parallels performs as well as can be expected. For the one commenter who managed to spell out "c-l-a-s-s-a-c-t-i-o-n" - you've got to be kidding me.

People might not know, but when VMWare came out, it was something like 299 USD. The "student edition" was something like $99. This was in 2000 dollars. Parallels comes in bit cheaper, I would say.

VMs on the mac today not true replacements for hardware. In a couple of years, maybe. Today, be content with lightweight, general interoperability. Virtualization is only in the "toddler" phase on OSX/Intel. There are going to be kinks.

 

[al3]

VMs on the mac today not true replacements for hardware. In a couple of years, maybe. Today, be content with lightweight, general interoperability. Virtualization is only in the "toddler" phase on OSX/Intel. There are going to be kinks.

I agree. However the company (Parallels) put out something THAT WORKED to perfection for us. All I need is to use IE for a few insurance sites that require it and to run a few simple Visual Basic programs. I was not looking to launch the Space Shuttle with it. I only want the program to do what it DID BEFORE.... which was WORK. Now it does NOT work.

True, I should not have upgraded, but in the past all the previous upgrades have had no issues.

You know what it is for me? It's the silence (or arrogance?) of the company. When you screw up, get on the wires and admit it. Tell us about what we can do to mitigate the screw up, what you are doing about it, and WHY YOU CARE.

So far, not word one in public about the 4560 build on 10.4.10 Intel Mini machines. Look. I wrote 200,128 lines of PHP code for our Jaya123 web service (http://www.jaya123.com ... try the demo if you wish). I own that company and I'm no stranger to the software world. And when we were first out of the gate (then with desktop software called PUB123) there were lots of problems... we rolled out a new build almost every week! But we never forgot that people depended on us and had PAID us for our product and we were always up-front with them. That helped a lot. When I entered the financial services business (long story why.. you don't want to know!) I never forgot the lesson of those early days of PUB123 and Jaya123.

No one is asking for perfection. We're just asking for common courtesy and simple competence.

Is there anyone running a 10.4.10 Intel Mini (or any other box) that is able to use the 4560 build? If so, I've not heard about it. Did Parallels test it on 10.4.10?

Lots of questions here. Very few answers from the company who has had over a week to circle their wagons and treat their paying customers to an explanation. Or am I being unreasonable here?

Al
www.insurancesolutions123.com

 

[slantyyz]

If I recall, someone said they're going to have a fix shortly. That means action is being taken. What more can you expect?

Not to denigrate your PHP skills, but writing x86 virtualization for OSX and writing server-side scripts for a web site are not even in the same ballpark. The Parallels team is dealing with much lower level operations than one will ever try using PHP. The open source QEMU project had a lot of difficulty getting native x86 virtualization working until the original Q author stopped holding his code for ransom. This is not trivial if-then-else coding.

For all we know, the fix to your bug caused five other hardware configurations to kernel panic. These break-fix cycles don't get resolved overnight, especially with all the regression errors that can occur.

In the end, I don't want to defend Parallels for their "inaction", but as someone who has worked inside an enterprise ISV and who also consults for enterprise software vendors who charge way more than $30 per incident, I do have sympathy for their situation. Mac users expect a lot. Fail to meet their expectations and they'll be on you like a bad suit.

And for the record, 4560 runs fine on 10.4.10 on my iMac. I just test-installed 4560 on my wife's 10.4.10 mini and it worked as well. So now you've heard about it - 4560 does run on 10.4.10. I've only experienced kernel panics with 4560 on a test machine that I can refer to as a "100% unsupported configuration".

 

[al3]

Not to denigrate your PHP skills, but writing x86 virtualization for OSX and writing server-side scripts for a web site are not even in the same ballpark.

I agree, but the point I was trying to make was that customers want more than just "real soon now" response. Oh, and yes, I can write low-level code... even down to the firmware... but I let younger people with more working brain cells do that these days!

QEMU project had a lot of difficulty getting native x86 virtualization working until the original Q author stopped holding his code for ransom. This is not trivial if-then-else coding.

QEMU and Zen are free. You get what you pay for... or at least you should! I still use Linux for fun. Runs great on old, old, OLD hardware.

For all we know, the fix to your bug caused five other hardware configurations to kernel panic.

Fine. I understand software (Jeez, I started coding with Ross Perot's EDS in 1975 doing healthcare claims processing for Blue Shield in San Francisco.) But I also understand good customer relations and that was my main point. I feel I've been left to twist slowly in the wind (for those of you old enough to remember Watergate.)

In the end, I don't want to defend Parallels for their "inaction",

Well, you've done a pretty good job of it They should put YOU on the payroll! They really need a spokesperson who has "been there" like you (or I).

And for the record, 4560 runs fine on 10.4.10 on my iMac. I just test-installed 4560 on my wife's 10.4.10 mini and it worked as well. So now you've heard about it - 4560 does run on 10.4.10. I've only experienced kernel panics with 4560 on a test machine that I can refer to as a "100% unsupported configuration".

You running an Intel iMac? Maybe this is a Mini issue. Maybe it's not Parallels but that the VM got corrupted in the install? Does the install touch the winxp.hdd?

All I'd like is for the company to issue a statement on their website or blog saying that "Hey, yes we have a problem... and we're working our butts off to get it fixed and in the meantime you might try doing [x,y,z] and we are really sorry and we really appreciate you folks out there. We're on it."

I don't want blood and guts from them. Just tell me where they are in the process, what they think the issue is, etc. You know, maybe there are some folks here on this board who could help them?

I don't want to attack the company or defend it. I just want my problem fixed and we will remain as a customer. If another week goes by, I'm going to think "Hmmm, maybe these folks really don't know how to fix this?"

Am I being unreasonable here? I hope not. I run three companies.

www.adams-blake.com
www.jaya123.com
www.insurancesolutions123.com

I may not know everything but I do know the basic precepts of CRM. I might have been born at night... but it wasn't LAST night!

Al

 

[slantyyz]

I think you missed the part where I said I also did a test install on my wife's intel core duo mini which is running 10.4.10.

Is it really necessary to plug your companies on every post? If you're trying to be heard, I think that kind of posting behavior hurts you more than it helps you.

 

[al3]

I think you missed the part where I said I also did a test install on my wife's intel core duo mini which is running 10.4.10.

Right. I did miss that. Sorry. What do you mean by a 'test install?' I've got a very 'clean' system... no hacks, etc. I wonder why it runs fine on your wife's Mini and my VM craps out on mine?

....If you're trying to be heard, I think that...

I've said enough. I'll let you carry the ball from here on out. The people I want to hear me don't seem to be listening... but maybe things will pick up next week and this will be solved.

Al

 

[bgrau2020]

vmware release candidate RC1

Isn't it amusing that Vmware build for their Mac VM Fusion RC1 is 50460
I think Parallels were trying to make a joke at the expense of VMware techs here ,
unfortunately it didn't work out, did it
Parallels Build 4560 vs.
VMware Fusion 1.0 Release Candidate
RC 1 | 7/3/07 | Build 50460 | 159 MB
VMware-Fusion-1.0.0-50460.dmg
A disk image file that includes the installer and other required software components.

 

[slantyyz]

Right. I did miss that. Sorry. What do you mean by a 'test install?' I've got a very 'clean' system... no hacks, etc. I wonder why it runs fine on your wife's Mini and my VM craps out on mine?

By test install I mean that I installed it, loaded and launched a VM, and then uninstalled it - I was just validating your theory that nobody with a Mini on 10.4.10 could run 4560.

Some thoughts:

Some things you might want to try - uninstall, try using appzapper (imho, it's worth the price) - worst case, you might be able to do it using the command line on the shell. Do a clean re-install -- if you are going to reinstall, I suggest you use the last known stable version, as you run your businesses on this machine (no point being at the bleeding edge unless there's a feature you absolutely must have). Make sure you back up your VM, bla bla - you know the drill.

Your memory might have hardware issues. I know that on Windoze, blue screens are rampant when there are flaws in the RAM (they don't always manifest themselves right away either). From what I understand of the Mac, it doesn't like anything but top-tier RAM either. If you're feeling daring, try popping out one of the DIMMS (that means using a putty knife to crack open the case, etc.) and alternating to see if it still reoccurs. If you do attempt this, you'll need to allocate less memory to the VM, etc.

Also, in the interim, you might consider dual booting via Boot Camp (I don't know if you can still find that anywhere). At least you won't have to borrow a machine this way.

 

[rev_bem]

as I have mentioned earlier in this thread I have one Mini Core Solo that runs 4560 fine as well as an iMac 2.0GHz C2D that runs it fine. I also have a Core Duo Mini that suffers from the kernel panic. All machines are running 10.4.10 v1.1 and the Core Duo Mini passes memtest with flying colors so i highly doubt RAM is to blame. All 3 machines are fully up to date with all software updates as well so they are in indentical trim. In addition a staff member from Parallels has stated that they have been able to duplicate this kernel panic and a fix is forthcoming (albeit way to friggin' slowly)

so, although your notes are based on good intentions slantyyz,re-installing, appzapper, etc isn't going to solve the issue...the only possibility at this point, as you mentioned, is to retrograde to the previous stable version...

cheers

 

[rev_bem]

bumpitty bump

 

[cliffman]

Same for me - TERRIBLE SUPPORT HERE

I have the same issue as reported about, parallels 4560, Mac Mini, hard kernel panic when attempted to start a VM. I've emailed support, turnaround time was TWO DAYS, and the response was useless.

Interestingly enough, the response (recieved yesterday) mentioned nothing about 'reporducing in the lab' or a fix being on the way. This is incredibly annoying. I run Linux for work, and already have (and use) VMWare for my Linux-on-Linux virtual machines. I am going to be looking very hard at Fusion.

What a sorry-ass mess.

 

[al3]

I am going to be looking very hard at Fusion.

What a sorry-ass mess.

My bet is that they are being bought. The staff is probably packing up boxes and/or working on resumes. What other conclusion can you come to when a company goes ten days with a problem that loyal customers are discussing and there has been no official word and very little communication?

I hope I'm wrong, but I've seen this played out before.

Al

 

[kuebler]

My bet is that they are being bought.
...
I hope I'm wrong, but I've seen this played out before.

Al

Guys, don't be so negative!

Of course they may be being bought - and I don't know whether this would be a catastrophe -, but they may be simply just a small software outfit, which has suddenly got a large number of small customers, and now they've got the problems of success. E.g. they are not yet ready with the logistics to support this type of situation. Sometimes this can even kill a company, but it is not the usual outcome, fortunately.

The fact that they have not yet brought out a fix may come from the fact that they want to bundle some bug fixes into their next release. Up to now their policy has not been to shot with new releases every week. And the number of parallels 3.0 users on the Mac Mini sure is only a small percentage.

I also would like life to be perfect, but please don't forget: since Eve made mankind to be driven out of paradise life is no longer perfectly perfect ;-)

 

[Relan]

I did receive a PM from "Mike" who offered me a 'beta test' fix but I declined as we have a strict, zero-tolerance policy in this office of only using production software.

Hallo.

If you experience kernel panics (i.e. Mac freezes with grey screen) with build 4560 an do not want to use special build there are two solutions right now:

1. Roll back to 4128 build. You can download it here: http://download.parallels.com/v3/en/GA/Parallels Desktop 4128 Mac en.dmg

2. Update your Mac firmware. This way is preferable. To do so click "Apple -> Software Update", check firmware update option and follow the instructions.